I'm an idiot. I drove with the wrong name so now my time (which I will never beat) has been deleted. If I drive with the right name, will it come back?

He loves his (expensive) Clio. Who are we to jeer at this poor fellow?

So, how's it going for you guys? I finally worked out that siding through the sand was not a quick way and managed to jump into 23rd place, but there is still more time to be made up.

Quote from AstroBoy :

Win , though on a side note, the in car textures really like them, where can i grab them?

They are at www.lfs-database.com in the FX interiors. It's a DTM interior.

Can team SRS be removed altogether, and just make me and Zanetti independents? Sorry to keep changing this.

I'm obviously for the pit maneuvre, so it'll make an interesting discussion.

Well, it certainly was an interesting debate. I'm glad lots of opinions were expressed so the iCON guys can see what the drivers think about the issue. Same time tomorrow? Tomorrow's subject: the PIT maneuvre.

Quote from TexasLTU :

And everyone will argue to the drop. iTCC forum moderatotd should lock this thread.

We're having an interesting discussion. What are you contributing?

Quote from deadwolfbones :

racername: srsasso

l

@Deko, I feel this discussion is important for the future rules of the series. I'm just making my point and arguing the case against bump drafting.

It wasn't meant as an insult, just a demonstration as to what happens when it goes wrong. Anyway, you were calling me retarded before I even had the idea for a video in my little brain.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Passo, you ever heard of "strategy". That word does exist you know, in most series you just see it used in the pits, but in others you will see racing strategy, consisting of all different things. This series seemed to show bumpdrafting as strategy, and tbh half the time that was the safest way around people.

You're right, this series did show bump drafting as a viable strategy; but that still doesn't make it right or realistic, in my opinion. It's not a safe way around anyone: it's a farce because it takes next to no skill. I'd much rather see someone draft and then pull out of the draft and attempt to pass as opposed to following a train of cars past an driver who is all alone.

And now 4 posts have been made since I started writing this one. Let me make this clear: my video was really just a satircal look at bump drafting and wasn't intended to offend. I'm passionate (and have been for many years) about touring car racing so I'm going to fight its corner whenever something comes along to bring it into disrepute.

Quote from PMD9409 :

You are retarded for saying we are allowed to get away with bumping in turns, but not on straights.

First, stop insulting me.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Deliberate contact, yes, but what's your point? The person you are either pushing is either your team mate or someone you are benefiting. At no point is it unfair because anyone can do it, choosing not to is your own fault.

So because I'm out in the lead, all by myself, being the best driver in the race, it's my fault that the guys behind are bump drafting right into my ass and straight past. Of course. How could I be so retarded?!?! If you need to bump draft another car to make yourself 3 positions (and lose them again), then you're not in touring cars. Head back to the oval (no insult, it's a fact. BD belongs on the oval).

You are driving into the back of another car, hoping to God they know exactly what is about to happen, and that lag won't screw you over.

Quote from PMD9409 :

None of those accidents were caused by bumpdrafting, except the one between me and Nolan, and that was a minor off course where no one was harmed. The first incident you have me making a 3 wide pass on the inside, and last time I checked you have to have more speed in order to pass someone, in which I did (not from bumpdrafting). And yet I was bumped at the apex of the corner, after completing the pass, and almost spun.

It was from BD; you took Texas with you and he did not react in time and nearly ended up piling into the back of everyone. He had to take to the grass because of his extra speed. Not really good racing there. As for your move, you nearly didn't get round the corner, the guys you passed were quite shocked you appeared in front of them from such a long way back, because of the bump drafting.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Next you have the 4 car bump train, which had no danger in it unless lag tookover, in which it didn't. The cars go 3 wide into T1, an early apex into the turn, and the car on the outside cuts down on the car in the middle. So, if he is going too fast into the turn Passo, how can he cut someone off at the apex of the turn?

There shouldn't be that many cars, so close together, going at such high speed. That can be attributed to bump drafting, as well as poor race-craft.

In conclusion, Bump Drafting still has no place in touring cars.

I didn't like your post because you refused to understand the point, and also decided that we're all retarded.

Quote from PMD9409 :

... but this is just over the line retardation!

Quote from PMD9409 :

How is my post nonsense? You guys said yourself that this is touring car racing, where bumping happens. So if in real touring cars they don't bump down the straights (because they don't get as big of a draft as in LFS), they can only bump in the turns. I don't know about you guys, but bumping the turns sound mighty dangerous.

But it seems you still do not understand. Bump drafting is deliberate contact. Contact in touring cars is inevitable but is mostly (and should be) accidental.

Quote from PMD9409 :

You want to know the ignorant part about that video Passo? All the "accidents" happened in the turns, so that must be touring car racing!

As for the video, well, I'm sorry you found it ignorant but the cause of all the crashes was bump drafting. If you're going 10+ mph quicker into a corner because of that technique, you're always going to have a greater likelihood of problems/contact: Which is precisely the point I am making.

I posted this in the iTCC bump drafting discussion argument thread to prove a point (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=58478 if you're interested in joining the debate). It was made in about 45 minutes. I'll just leave it here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV8tM2r4hRY

Not supposed to be an insult, just to make that clear

Last edited by Mp3 Astra, Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:19.

Quote from Hypothraxer :

I was wondering if you have to apply to this bump drafting - when someone came from behind he always chose the other car to bump leaving me in the dust, making me think that I forgot to pay my dues?

It's an exclusive club. You have to prove your worth!

With great respect to all the racers who have provided thrilling races for the last few months, here's a video showing my feelings for bump drafting [in circuit racing].

I nicknamed it 'Touring Car Techniques'

Last edited by Mp3 Astra, Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:22.

Quote from scotty2888 :

Lag can happen at anytime even when your side by side banging door handles TOURING CAR STYLE and cause an accident. I see no difference.

Because crashing into the back of someone to get a speed boost is a deliberate action. Banging doorhandles is a side-effect of some overtaking maneuveres. Moreover, bump drafting is not a touring car-style action.

http://www.ajvaynerchuk.com/ho ... ebook-a-twitter-tutorial/

?

Maybe you already tried that.

Quote from BigTime :

I really can't believe we're arguing this when drivers were dive bombing 5 and 6 cars back this last round of the season, and not a word has been said. "It's touring car racing, contact is part of it"

A little bit of contact is touring car racing. Note A LITTLE, like rubbing door panels in a corner. Bump drafting isn't minor contact, it's crashing into the back of someone at 15+mph. Bump drafting is to be left on the oval, in my opinion for all the reasons I stated above. This is just my opinion and, as you can see, even my crazy co-commentator disagrees with me. Maybe I'm in a minority here but whatever.

Quote from PMD9409 :

I waited a long while to respond to this thread, mainly because I just wanted a real good laugh, but this is just over the line retardation! Basically, what you guys are saying by us not being allowed to bumpdraft is this:

"Guys, we will not allow you to bump on the straights to wisely work your way up the field, instead, we are allowing to dangerously bump in corners, even at high speed. You might ask why? Well that's because this is for a good show, and people acting wisely is just plain wrong."

Thanks guys, I fully understand your concerns now.

Thanks Phil, I fully have absolutely no idea where you got that nonsense from. You were a perfect example of bump drafting going wrong, in race three of round six. You hit Nolan and you were off, no control. Luckily there was nobody near you to pick up the pieces.

Last edited by Mp3 Astra, Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:25. Reason : Housekeeping

Point still stands: the whole thing is dangerous, unrealistic and unfair on a guy who managed to make a break on the rest of the field. That's my 3.5 pence. EDIT: Actually, it's more like 1.75 pence. Fail.

Last edited by Mp3 Astra, Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:35.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Ever tried to bumpdraft more than 2 cars at once in LFS?

Doesn't work very well.

So, ultimately, the number of people in a team doesn't matter unless you're just talking about the availability of bumpdrafting partners in general. And in that case, tbh I didn't discriminate between teammates and non-teammates when I wanted to bump up the field this season. The only discrimination comes when it's a choice between a teammate and a non-teammate.

Check the 'cast, we had 4 car bumpdrafts on regular occasions. Lag really seems to help those ones, the speed boost is unreal. Literally.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Bumpdrafting enhances the team/squad aspect, IMO. Plus it's crazy fun.

Yes, but when your team/squad has 5+ drivers in the series, it gets a little ridiculous... Know what I'm saying?

It looks silly and unrealistic and, for me, I like to have a realistic race that's not enhanced by lag-induced bump drafting.

I would agree about banning bumpdrafting; it was very clear at Aston and Kyoto especially, that if you got yourself a partner you could cruise past everyone. It made for good commentating but I'd rather have standard racing and cut out the silliness.

Ah, you added the link to the first post. I shall watch it now.

This page has had one picture that was shite. I'm here to correct this:



Possibly my favourite ever C&H.